Along the Gravel Road Podcast
Welcome to the Along the Gravel Road Podcast where we’re changing the conversation around mental health. As a You Aren’t Alone Project non-profit initiative, the goal of the podcast is to provide a safe platform for people to share their stories and give others a sense of hope and connection.
With guests ranging from individuals who are open and willing to share their own mental health journeys to mental health professionals to share expertise and advice.
Trigger warning: Some topics discussed in these episodes may be difficult for listeners to hear. If you are feeling triggered by a topic, we encourage you to listen when you are in a better space, or with someone you trust.
Unless otherwise stated, topics discussed are based on personal experiences, not professional advice, and should not be considered an alternative to seeking support from a mental health professional when needed. Additional resources will be provided in the show notes of each episode.
Along the Gravel Road Podcast
Ceisha James-Hayes on Healing Generational Trauma
When Ceisha James-Hayes speaks about her New Orleans roots, you can almost hear the jazz and feel the pulse of the city—but beneath that rhythm lies a deeper, more complex beat of familial challenges and generational trauma. Our conversation with Ceisha s unwraps the vibrant façade to reveal the impact of violence, substance abuse, and normalized trauma on the community and family unit. Through her candid storytelling, we're taken on a journey of self-discovery and healing, touching on the profound realization that true prosperity comes from mental, not financial, stability.
This episode examines the intricate dance between personal mental health and the web of family expectations. We discuss the art of setting boundaries for our own well-being and share insights on the significance of confronting past behaviors and forgiving ourselves to move forward. Ceisha explores the delicate balance of guiding loved ones through their own life lessons, reflecting on the ways in which our growth and empathy can help reshape family dynamics for the better.
We explore the lasting influence of parenting and the vital lessons we impart to our children. We emphasize the importance of self-worth, recognizing the beauty within, and the necessity of setting healthy boundaries. The power of parental behavior and its effect on the next generation underlines the conversation. Join us for a dialogue that is not just about unearthing the pains of the past, but also about nurturing hope for the future, as we come to terms with the lasting legacy of our families and the impact we have on those who follow.
Ceisha James-Hayes is from New Orleans and graduated from LSU. She has worked in education, supply chain operations, logistics, non-profit organizations and with databases within the legal system. She is the oldest daughter, which she notes is probably one of the most significant thing about her because her experiences, relationships and overall journey have been significantly shaped by something as simple as her birth order.
She likes to consider herself a student of life and has paid attention and processed things around her for many years.
Follow along at instagram.com/youarentaloneproject or learn more at youarentaloneproject.com.
Welcome to the Along the Gravel Road podcast. I'm your host, Chelsea Barona. I'm really excited to welcome you all back today. We have a few really exciting things announcements to make before we jump right in. The first thing is that the you Aren't Alone project, the nonprofit that brings you this podcast, we are hosting our gosh fourth annual live art event on May 3rd it's a Friday this year, and so we're inviting artists from all different backgrounds to come out and just share your journey through, you know, mental health, through life in general, with the community, and so, if you're interested, go to our website at youartaloneprojectcom and you can check out more. Tickets are also available now. So now that we've gotten that out of the way, we are really excited.
Speaker 1:I'm really excited to welcome you today to the podcast, and our guest today is Cecia James Hayes. I don't know why. Every time I have trouble saying names on this thing, but here we are, and so today we're really gonna touch on which we'll actually kind of have back-to-back episodes on this. A little bit about, you know, family dynamics and that impact that it has from generation to generation, particularly when there is mental illness involved or substance use or different trauma that has gone through you know that's really passed down from family to family and how you start to recognize those things and actually try and break those parents patterns for the next generation. So I'm really excited to talk to Cecia today. Welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you for being here.
Speaker 2:Give me a space you know to express, so that's great.
Speaker 1:I think it's gonna be really great. I think so many of the things that you and I got to discuss already I'm just like this is gonna be really impactful for people to hear. I really hope so. Yeah, so if you want to start off, just introduce yourself a little bit.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I was born in New Orleans. I left during Hurricane Katrina, I stayed in Baton Rouge for about 14, 15 years and I moved back. I guess, reflecting on things, I think my childhood has really played a big part in a lot of the trauma and a lot of the, a lot of things that I've, you know, had to process through the years, and I think being grown up in New Orleans alone is just something that I think a lot of people who are from New Orleans can attest to, that we are exposed to a lot of stuff, like whether it's in school, whether it's in the streets, whether it's on the news, in the family dynamic, and I think we grow up a little bit faster than a lot of, you know, other kids in different cities and in different cultures. You know, because a lot of people think, oh, new Orleans is so much fun, it's so much yeah, it's so happy and the food's great and that's mighty grub, but there's so much. I like to say it like this People love the rhythm of New Orleans, but they don't know anything about the blues. So I grew up around a lot of the blues and even though you know it was rough, I think it's great character development that happens through all of that.
Speaker 2:But a lot of that I think we were exposed to. We thought that was normal. I didn't really realize it wasn't normal until after Hurricane Katrina when I moved to Baton Rouge and we're on the news and they said, oh, they had two murders this week and my family's. Like two murders is not bad for a week. You know, we're used to a murder every day. So that is when I think I started to explore like, hey, maybe I shouldn't have been exposed to the things I was exposed to, especially in the family dynamic and the violence and the drug addiction and the alcohol issues and the just the overall trauma, every different, every type of trauma you could imagine and you know, sometimes at least a secondhand trauma. So that's what I've just been exploring and trying to, I guess, weave into my healing journey of just understanding and processing that. So, yeah, that's why I'm at with things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know it's so interesting because, just like you said, there's been a lot of people who will share, you know, something that they've been through that is sort of from the outside looking at and very it's traumatic. You know that, yes, you experienced a trauma, but if it's something that you were just used to saying that you grew up with, it is very hard to really recognize it as a trauma initially, until you're either outside of it or until you're able to get that sort of support or treatment or whatever it is to say no, you did go through this and you know, here's maybe some of the ways that it's now showing up in your life. Exactly what, at what point? Like when did that? When did you start to actually get sort of support for some of the things that you've been through? And like, what was that? What did that process look like?
Speaker 2:Well, I gotta give you know props to my mom, because my mom she's been through a lot, a lot of trauma, a lot of in different areas, different parts of her life. She made it a point to get us therapy when we were younger. So, okay, she was going through her divorce. She was like, okay, I'm gonna make you guys go to therapy so you can talk about your feelings.
Speaker 2:And I was kind of this kid that would act like I wasn't bothered by anything, because that was kind of a I'm fine, like I'm fine, I'm not bothered. And I felt like if I showed that I was bothered, then things would get worse, because growing up in a violent household that I grew up in, if you showed fear, it got worse. But if you, if you act like you didn't care that this was happening, if you, if you stood up to this person that was abusing you know people in your family, like you know, that was better for me to just be this tough, strongest older daughter. And so I, first time I went to therapy that they got, the therapist was like she's completely, just detached, like, completely like. And I was like I'm fine, I don't care that they're getting divorced, I'm glad it's over, Not even processing, and my mom, kind of, was present enough to know like no, we need to keep up with it.
Speaker 2:So you know, on and off throughout my childhood, from like 13 on up I was in and out of therapy, but then I got into therapy on my own when I started to realize that my relationships were suffering, not in a way of like more of a way that I would take more I'm not gonna say abuse, but emotional things. I would just take them on and be fine about it and never express myself.
Speaker 1:You would be detached.
Speaker 2:Detached and just allow people to just do things, and not even relationships, also in friendships and work situations. And when I was in my career like different career, parts of my career, I would just take and take, and take and take. And then I finally realized like, oh, this may be a part of my conditioning, like I may have been low key program to just accept the bare minimum. And that's when I really got into therapy. I would say about maybe 2012-ish. I really jumped into therapy because I was in a very difficult relationship and so I remember going to therapy and we went to couples therapy first and I remember that the therapist, you know, we went by ourselves and we went together and then we went by, you know, we came back together and therapist was like, hey, you've been emotionally abused, talking to me and I'm like really I didn't even realize that I was being emotionally abused.
Speaker 2:So I think that's when I really stuck to it. You know I've had different therapists on and off, but right now I'm in therapy. Right now I love her, she's great. But I had to learn to prioritize intentional healing and that means you gotta do a lot of looks in the mirror and it means you have to be like oh, I was toxic at one point and I think for me I was a lot of forgiving myself for a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yes, and that's the hardest part about all of this is learning how to forgive yourself, because I allowed behavior to occur and so that was rough. And then it's like you just keep getting deeper and deeper and deeper and some days you be like, oh, I'm fine, I'm healed, and you triggered and I started to realize that my triggers started to be my family, especially my dad, because my dad, he was addicted to drugs for about 30 years of my life. So and that's because of his trauma my dad had severe trauma from childhood and he detached, blocked it out and, just so happens, when my mom gave birth to me, all of it came back. I don't know if it was just his fatherly instincts to protect, brought back all of the things that he needs to protect me from, and so that brought all of the things that happened to him up and he proceeded to be addicted to crack and for all those years and trying to numb it out, he didn't wanna face it. That ended up causing actual damage to his brain and he's actually a paranoid schizophrenic, now Also bipolar too. So all of that's going on and then.
Speaker 2:So I have a dad that I'm growing up with, even though he's not in the house with me. I have a father that has the emotional intelligence of an eight year old, and so I'm a child and I'm dealing with a father who he's like oh yeah, baby girl, you gonna take care of me when you get older. You gonna make sure you do this, you gonna make sure you that you love your daddy, right, no matter what. And that is abusive, not realizing that and realizing that. Oh, this is why I tended to gravitate towards men who I need to take care of. So, like, the deeper you go, it's like you go a little deeper and you gotta sit for a second in that and be like, okay, I just figured out, oh, this is why I was attracted to this type of guy. Okay, let me sit for this for a second.
Speaker 2:And then you have the process getting out of victim mentality, of being like, oh, this happened to me. And then you have I have to be like, okay, this happened, but this doesn't define me. So it's so many steps and I understand why people give up. I'm not gonna sit here and say it's easy, because it's a lot of self-evaluation, it's a lot of just digging and it's a lot of doing the work without the people that you need to do the work with you. Exactly Cause I feel like we're in therapy because of people that need to be in therapy or not in therapy, like I wish some of my people go to therapy, please.
Speaker 1:I give y'all, come on, we can come together, but Well, just like you said with your dad that he is essentially this eight year old child who first experienced this trauma and was abused, and because he just used substances and now suffers from all these mental illnesses, he never went back and healed that inner child in order to move on to the next step of growth in his life. So he's stuck there. You just went back and started healing all these parts of yourself, but that means you also have to go and meet them where they were. Yes, exactly, damn. That hurts sometimes. That is hard.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of grace though.
Speaker 1:Oh, so much.
Speaker 2:And I wouldn't have had grace for him if I would not have gone to therapy, because my therapist is one who will say well, hey, this is why he acts like this, because he's really an eight year old right now. And her telling me that is why sometimes I'm like, okay, he's acting up right now, but I look at him and I'm like he's literally eight. So you can't be upset. You know, if an eight year old child is throwing a temper tantrum like a temper tantrum, would you really be mad at them? I was like no, but you also have to be careful because you can't give them too much of like. I'm gonna continue to allow this. You just have to establish boundaries, which is hard, especially for your parents.
Speaker 1:Right. So this is still the person that was supposed to take care of you, and it in a lot of ways, but you can sort of I don't wanna say detach because that's not necessarily what you were doing before.
Speaker 1:But you can separate those two things now and say, yes, I should have had a father that was able to care for me, and I can also understand that his experiences, his trauma, is why he is the way he is and I can't fully blame him for that. You know, to be able to have both of those things be true at the same time can kind of take away this power that it had over you to say, oh, I have to take care of this person, this is now my responsibility, when really at this point you just you understand it but it's still not your responsibility.
Speaker 2:It's, but that's hard to work through because I'm my dad's only child, so that's really hard to work through, because my family, I love them, but they tend to be like well, you're all he has, so you have to do this and you have to make sure he, you take care of him and you have to make sure this and it's part of me, is that's part of me. It's like I was never allowed to be a child, though, and this was happening way before I got here, and now y'all are putting this on me to fix this, which I don't have the space for. Honestly, I don't have the capacity, but even love of myself enough to say, oh no, I used to just run myself ragged. I used to be looking for housing for them. I used to try to get them in the rehab.
Speaker 2:I've actually had my dad committed before. I used to run myself and I finally was like no, I really, for this, for me to be in this generation, I have to prioritize my own self, and that's not being selfish. I think that's a thin line, but it's really not being selfish, and I think we've been programmed, I guess, with the guilt of just having family. It's like okay, but that's family. That's blood, no matter what you have to do. I think that also has created a lot of mental issues, absolutely Like mental health issues, and that's part of that generalized trauma.
Speaker 1:If you're still stuck in that loop of like oh, I'm now responsible for these people, how are you moving forward, how are you setting yourself up for a better future for your children and in future generations when you're stuck taking care of the past?
Speaker 2:And that's heavy, that's a very heavy, and I also realized that's why I hadn't had children yet, because I'm like, how I'm taking care of you know, and how am I gonna have children and how am I gonna have the space to juggle that. And so I've finally reached the point of like you know what, this is not for me, and you know. But it's hard because I wanna pull other family members with me, cause that's a stage too of like, oh, I gotta save, oh, I've woke up and this is, I'm happier here and I do this and I get my sleep now and I drink water and I do this and I meditate, and I wanna pull them with me, but realizing that their alarm clock's gonna go off when it's time for their alarm clock to go off.
Speaker 2:That's also a big thing to drop and it's stages to it, you know, because I also have a brother who was a paranoid schizophrenic we think his was also drug induced, you know and cause he started doing drugs at a very young age and a family that use drugs to numb things.
Speaker 2:And you have to realize, like even being an older sister and not protecting him from that, like not like seeing, like hey, everybody's doing drugs right now and be just being like, oh, you know he's all right, you know he's doing his thing, and not realizing that that was actually damaging his brain. So that's something I dealt with too, of like, was I better? Could I have been a better older sister at this time in my life and been, you know, a better role model of hey, don't hang out with these people, you know. Don't you know, but I didn't, and that's something that was a whole six month therapy situation I had to go through to release that. But it's all a part of it and I think the family dynamics also. People don't realize that I say this all the time I would rather my family and my parents be mentally stable than be millionaires. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I, you know, like money really doesn't matter when it comes to your foundation as a person and how you move through the world. Because I didn't realize I had anxiety since I was a child. If the phone rings too late at night, I'm worried something's happened Because my dad was on the streets, because something was happening. Yeah, something was like okay. Well, I'm scared, like oh, why is someone calling this late? Like as a child, why am I even thinking about oh, where's my dad? Is he okay? Has anyone seen him in months or you know, or even crime in the ones I have, sure that have were killed at night? Yeah.
Speaker 2:So when the phone rings at night, someone's gotten killed To this day. If she calls me back to back, I'm like mom, that triggers me a little bit. Yep, please don't call me more than once if you're just asking me how to program Netflix on your TV. Like you know, and she understands that, I'm able to say hey, mom, that bothers me a little bit and she understands where that's coming from. But me having a space in the, so I guess, express my boundaries is a big deal too.
Speaker 1:So but yeah, yeah, that's huge and you know, it's like just with the anxiety, with the maybe that that probably is something that, yeah, the phone rings, that might always be something internally where it has it's a trigger. But, just like you were saying, you start to recognize those triggers, you can start to take away some of its power.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that way the anxiety isn't going to last the full day. It happens in that moment. You really recognize it, you let it go you release it, you know.
Speaker 1:but and then you know, when you're talking about your brother and being in that situation and having to go back and look at you know what what you could have done differently you still have to recognize that you were essentially. You were a child, you know, and you were still that child that was trying to take care of everyone else and started to detach because it was safer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so in that moment it was safer.
Speaker 2:It really was, and even my behavior in my twenties. I was partying all the time because it was. I didn't like being the person having to be in charge. Yeah, so when I would go out, my friend, my friends, saw a complete different side of me. They're like you finally got to just go be myself and and I overdid it. You know a little bit. I was LSU, had a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:But, but like, even then I look back and I'm like I'm glad that I didn't you know it didn't spiral, because it could have spiraled a little bit. It could have. I could have. Still, I could have fallen into the same notions as everybody else and me and you know. But realizing that, why I did that, helps me be like okay, I'm going to show my past self grace and yes, cause some of that.
Speaker 1:You start to unwant, unravel things and you start to go back and you recognize that you were, you know these patterns that you were falling into, how dangerous they were and how kind of there was.
Speaker 1:There's shame there, you know there's shame, even with the understanding that there was some underlying things that were going on that probably that really impacted the decisions you were making. That shame is still heavy and so to be able to say I take ownership over the decisions I made and I forgive you, you know whoo, yeah, that moment for me was pretty intense and it's still happening. I mean, there's so many things that I still have to go back and say like I still feel that that shame around and to say, okay, feel it and then let it go. Yeah, let it go. I've grown from that, you know, and but I also it gives me a lot more empathy, you know, towards others who I can see making those same patterns. And, just like you said, you want to be like don't do it, you know, but people, people have to you while you can show them like model. You know this, this behavior, this change behavior, people have to come to those those decisions on their own.
Speaker 2:They have to, and that's the rough part. Watching it like watching this the well, I forgot what they call it. It's not character development, but it's like a. You're watching this like oh, I know what's going to happen here.
Speaker 2:It's like okay, but you have to go through it and it's rough. But you know, I have a younger brother. I think I've been better with him. I think that's how I've been able to kind of heal even you know my baby brother. You know he's 12 years younger than me, so I'm my other brother. We were friends Like oh, you, my, you, my homie, but my baby brother I'm like, hold up, let me try to like guide you a little bit better. And then I think that's how I've learned from it, even though that's not really my.
Speaker 2:My dad always says it's just not my jacket to wear. You know, like he's always my dad is a very he doesn't hold stuff. So if it's, if it has nothing to do with him, he's like that's not my jacket to wear. So I tend to be like you know what? That's not even my jacket to wear. So you know that's some things that I've gotten from my dad, because he goes in and out and he goes in and out of things Like right now he's, you know, it's going through a lot right now, but he's sober. So that's great, okay. But I think even my dad has already always been very raw and not treating me as a child. Like even when I, when I talk about him, I should be able to, I'm very raw with it, like I'm just like, oh yeah, my dad was on crack. That's kind of like, ooh, I should be, you know, but People are pretty shaken back by that, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like oh, but for me I'm just like oh, that's, you know, but I wasn't sort of a normal every day, normal everything but the more polished thing would be.
Speaker 2:my dad suffers from substance abuse. Substance abuse, but I'm not even so raw with it and he's still wrong to this day and I don't know if that's helped me, but me knowing what was going on was great.
Speaker 2:I think, not to not details, but me knowing and not just you know, being like why is he never here and why me knowing Okay, he's suffering with something was really important I think, because I think sometimes parents try to hide a little bit too much or and sometimes they give a little bit you know, too much information. But I think filing that fine at balance is really important too when it comes to just the dynamics in family and things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's interesting with you know, with your younger brother, to sort of be that that person for him. A little bit, it's kind of what you were talking about. It's kind of like okay, now you're starting to take care of the next generation, so there's a little bit of that, you know it's not so much. Oh, this is a responsibility I have and that I have to do. It's separate from that. Now it's like I've gone through this healing journey. Now I can impart that on this next generation. How can?
Speaker 2:I do that, yes, and which I think is important, like that's the only way we could be a ladder, like I helped my brother with resumes and all he was drafting emails and stuff. Like that's cool. But I think the biggest thing I've gotten from helping my youngest brother is I explain things to him Because you know, we have the same mother, so sometimes mom may have a bad off day or she's a little bit down, she suffers a little bit with her mental health, and I'll call him up. I said, hey, mom probably yelled at you because she's overstimulated. She probably yelled because that's this going on. That's this going on Because I never want him to internalize and I think me internalizing for most of my life is what distracted me, kind of stunted my growth a little bit.
Speaker 2:You know, when it came to just my career, relationships, anything, I always internalized a lot because no one explained what was going on. When it came, when mom will come home and she's upset and you know she goes in her room and closes the door, you're like, well, what did I do wrong? And I think this generation does a better job of being like mom comes in. Hey, I had a rough day at work, I'm going to go in my room and decompress for 30 minutes. That simple little thing right there. I think our generation has gotten better at doing that and my mom has gotten better. My mom explains herself more because she's no longer in survival mode. She's not trying to take care of three kids on her own, pay all the bills, braces, cars, private school, like being in that mode like that for years, you would just whoop I got to get up, go to work, get up, go to work, get up, go to work.
Speaker 2:And I think, especially in black families, a lot of the mothers people don't realize that. You know, anxiety and depression shows up as agitation sometimes or it shows up as simply being quiet. So I think maybe exploring that more in our families, you know, will give more grace to the mothers, especially when it goes like mom's got a lot going on and I, you know, now that I'm older, I'm able to reflect back and be like wow, you know she wasn't upset, she had just worked 12 hours that day. Because if I go to work and I work 12 hours, I'm coming straight home and I'm going to sleep. I don't have any kids in the house. Why I got to help with homework, baths, dinner.
Speaker 1:And I know I'm more agitated. I know I'm like any little thing is going to get to me. Anything's going to you know so, and I'm now a person who can recognize that. I know that it's I'm not. It's not personal to whoever it happens to I interact with at that point.
Speaker 2:But a child doesn't understand that I understand, and then that creates walking on the exiles and a little bit anxiety and it's, you know. But I think I know now. So when I do have my children, you know, I'm going to be more aware and more intentional with just hey, if I'm having a rough day, let me sit in the car a little bit longer. You know, just being aware I think would help a lot, especially in families, because that's where you're, you're molded. It's like nature versus nurture.
Speaker 2:Like you're molded at home, you know you, you know go out and you're going to have experiences out in the world. But one thing I never want my children to go out into the world is looking for like love and acceptance and, you know, be able to express themselves Like you should be comfortable at home. There should be no eggshells on the floor.
Speaker 2:That should be the foundation, that should be like they're going to be able to walk. You know, so you know. But I'm glad that I did go through all of that, you know because I understand, like I'm able to like, absorb, process it and be like, okay, this has nothing to do with me, even at work. Well, I have people at work that you know they have a rough day and I'm just able to look at them and be like they may have had a rough day at home. You don't know what's going on, you don't know if any.
Speaker 2:Your perspective is huge, yeah, like that has nothing to do with me. Mm-hmm, nothing to do with me.
Speaker 1:How have you noticed that, now that you're really in this place of moving towards healing, how have you noticed that your relationships have changed outside of you know, just their familial relationships.
Speaker 2:Um, I actually had this shift away from a few people which was rough because I was friends with them for like a really long time and like no arguments, something like that. But I think, when I really stepped into who I really am, the person that I used to be wasn't expressive, didn't really express my boundaries, didn't really speak on what made me comfortable, what made me uncomfortable, if whether it be conversations or situations. And I think once I started to do that, what ended up happening with me was I got really protective of myself, and me being protective of myself, I became protective of my past selves. So then I had to struggle through remembering things that happened in the past and being like, wow, seesha, why didn't you react differently to that situation? And so I beat myself up along. I'm gonna say about three years. This has been about three years. I went through this phase of like reflect and like reflecting and being like wow that was really wrong, that that happened.
Speaker 2:And I wasn't mad at the people at all, I was more upset with myself. So but I think it came across to them as I was upset with them and even though they weren't doing those things, now I just kind of realized we weren't aligned as people. And that's hard to distance yourself from people you've been really close with when you've realized maybe you're not aligned as you thought you were, because I wasn't really in my true self, because I was operating out of this space, that I wasn't really expressing what I needed from these relationships, because I was programmed to always give and give and give, and give and give and give and show grace and show grace, but I wasn't really receiving. So that was rough. But I also have to be a little careful too, because I'm so protective of myself and my piece I don't really have a lot of capacity or for red flags in any situation Co-workers, friends, family, relationships I have to find balance that's where I'm at now of being like oh, that's a red flag and running that's usually what I do Like that's a red flag.
Speaker 2:I'm out. I have to be like, okay, this is a red flag, but maybe talk to them and see why. What's the why of this? You know they're aware of this, that they're doing this and express how you feel and if they don't react or shift a little bit, then maybe you can take it from there. But it was literally of my brain, would just be like red flag, I'm out and I'm like, okay, that's not healthy either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, gosh, that balances.
Speaker 2:That balances it's tough, yeah, because it's tough to find, because I'm one of those people you can do something and I'll be like, hey, I don't like that, you did that, and if you do it again, that's it yeah. And that's not good.
Speaker 1:But it's that protective factor, it's protective, but I need to. Yeah, that was a time Grace you're now giving yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I need to extend it a little bit, Because I know that was a time that I probably red flagged all over. I was a walking red flag. What if the people that were in my life would have been like up red flagged by what would have done to me? So I'm in that space. Of course I'm a very. I give a lot of compassion, I compromise, I do all that, but I'm working on not running.
Speaker 1:Especially when it comes to the people that you're in.
Speaker 2:Those real impactful relationships. I mean I have great friends. I have great friends, great family, but I think new people yeah, kind of like let me make sure you're not a bully. Let me make sure Because I've dealt with a lot of bullies in the past in my life in different parts, like different types of relationships. So any type of that type of behavior I tend to oh, let me protect myself, or a narcissist or any type of selfishness I run. So that's what I'm working on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that balance of trusting that gut feeling but also understanding that sometimes that gut feeling is based on trauma and not the actual situation at hand, which can. I think that's a big part of this process too is starting to understand the difference between those two things. Is this internal?
Speaker 2:Is it me or is it you know? Like, let me make sure it's not me. So I do a lot of processing.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I do a lot of processing, you know, like I don't, I don't, I let people be who they are, I don't try to. But then I go in our process and I say, ok, do I feel safe with this person? Yes, that's what I'm talking about. And if I can say yes, then we're good, that's great. If I say no, intuition, I gotta go, and I think everyone should have that right to be like if I don't feel safe in this space, with this person in situation or conversation or anything, get out of there.
Speaker 1:No, definitely you know, in a part of you, growing up in these environments, you have developed this intuition that is that you should absolutely trust, because you have been through things that have set you up, because there's you know. You said you, if you wouldn't have gone through all of these things, you may not be the person you are today. And so being able to look back to you on that and say I can both say what I've learned from it and what it created for me and what impact that had on who I am in a positive way and who I am, the things I went through that were that I should not have ever gone through.
Speaker 2:That's part of it too, like I shouldn't even been through that. That's a big part of it too. And being like, but that's, you know, it's all right. And I think a lot of times because I always knew about my family's trauma like my mom would tell me this happened, this happened, this happened. And I'd be processing as a five year old like what, and so when I would go through things I would often be like, well, it's not as bad as that person's, so that is why that was a big part of it. I was like, oh, this happened to me, but it's not as bad as my mom, it's not as bad as my dad or my grandmothers or my aunts, and that is, that was a big one.
Speaker 2:And I think my current therapist you know cause I would talk, I talked to her about some stuff and she was just like this happened to you and I'm like it's not that bad. And she's like, see, sure, that is mortified. And I had to stick it stuff back in me, like really Like I didn't really think it was that bad and I had to allow myself first. Before you heal, you have to feel.
Speaker 2:So, that wasn't fun. Going like recalling, you know, things that have happened, things that were said to me, like I had a lot of emotional abuse, and recalling the things that were said and then having to be like, oh, that was really worse than I thought it was. But allowing myself to be in that space is what led to me healing, cause, I mean, my pain matters too. So that was really. That was really a big part of it too, cause I grew up being like let me take care of these people because all this happened to them.
Speaker 1:Right, not in pushing aside what was happening to you right now.
Speaker 2:That's not that bad. Like, oh, I'm just, this is just, I'm just going to do that. That's not that bad. Like, oh, this could have been worse, but yeah, so that was a big one. And oftentimes you can't talk to about, you know, with your family, cause they don't, you know, they're going to have their guilt and their shame of, oh wow, I didn't realize that you took it like that. I was just trying to protect you from, and I appreciate that you know, informing me, to protect me, you know.
Speaker 2:But it ended up being I was informed and then I tended to belittle things that happened to me because it wasn't as extreme as what happened today when we were sharing with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, in a situation like that you're kind of going back and you're probably as much as you do want to express that that was painful for you, to your family. Yeah. Maybe that's. That's not necessary, you know, because that's only going to cause you cause more additional.
Speaker 2:I don't even need to do it. No, I'm not bothered about it all. I'm not attached, you know worry. Right no that's bad. Like I was like I don't even need to go tell people. Like, when I realized that I didn't need to have conversations with people about what that was a big one, yeah, there were a lot of things that happened that I thought I can't move forward until I have an apology. Now I'm like I don't care.
Speaker 2:Yeah, If you can, you can apologize. If you do, you don't Cause. Some people don't even realize it. But when I got to that part of my life where I was like I don't even need you to apologize to me, but, I.
Speaker 2:I had to accept and be honest and be like well dang, I've been waiting for one all these years. Oh, I was like oh, this is why I haven't let this go from this person. It's because I was waiting for them to realize what they did and then come back still me trying to control it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you need to wish control. That's the way it was impacting your relationship, moving forward without even.
Speaker 2:Even romantic relationships. They would do that Cause someone would like my ex would like do something, and he would apologize and I would be like bring it back up Cause I was not over it Like so it would be a you were waiting for those.
Speaker 1:That was all the apologies that you'd still needed, and so it was never going to be enough Like, but why did you do that?
Speaker 2:I don't want to. I need you to explain to me why did you do that. I know you said you were sorry, but why did you do it? Cause I needed to like control that part too. I don't even need to understand why anymore, right.
Speaker 1:Cause they don't know either. That's a them problem.
Speaker 2:They don't even they don't even know why they did it either. No, probably not. They need to go to therapy, right Right, they don't know why they did it either. So you realize, people just do stuff and it has nothing to do with you. People treat you how they feel about themselves, yup. So if they don't feel too great about themselves, they're going to treat you like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's another important thing that we can impart, you know, when raising kids and the people around us, the younger people around us, is that, because God, growing up, like the amount of times that I put other people's stuff and took it upon myself, like that caused a lot of that and I was already suffering from anxiety and depression. So like taking all of that in and turning it into these, like just my own insecurities, the and that's another thing like feeling like, oh, I allowed those things to make me insecure and then it's like you were a child. Yeah, but there's layers.
Speaker 2:You didn't know any better, like you're, like when you were. You know what helped me a lot. I worked at a school and I would see the kids. I would see like a 10 year old, 11 year old, eight year old, and when I would think back to things that you know that I did at that age and I would look at the kid and I'm like they really why are you beating yourself up about something that had to happen when you were eight? Right, look at them.
Speaker 1:They're literally only been on this planet for eight years. They don't even you know.
Speaker 2:So that is big too. And I think another thing that I think I got from, you know, just realizing things, is that a lot of my problem was that I thought that my worth came from how I showed up for other people. Yeah, like I thought, oh, I'm tired, I'm really exhausted, but I'm going to make sure I make it to this baby shower. Oh, I really don't have it to give, but I'm going to give my last to this person because this is how I show, this is how I prove my worth.
Speaker 1:This is what makes me worthy of this.
Speaker 2:And that came from always having to take care of other people growing up and that's a big one too of like my worth is having anything to do with what I do with other people. Now, nothing Like. What am I doing? Why am I doing this Like? Why do I have to? I feel like to show my love and to show that I'm worthy of love. I have to do the most. No, Not anymore.
Speaker 2:No, I don't. No, if I can't make it, I can't make it. If I hope you know, if I can't make your birthday dinner and you're a friend of mine and you don't understand that I'm exhausted. I worked 15 hours today and this happened. And this happened, you know, hopefully for creative foundation, where you know it's not intentional anything to do with you. I'm just exhausted. If the friendship ends because of that, I'm okay, like that's what you have to get, because a society has put so many requirements on what you have to do, to like be in relationships with people, and that has created a lot of mental health issues too. There's so many the stress, the anxiety of oh, they're gonna think I don't love them if I don't do this. Yeah, like no, doesn't work like that.
Speaker 1:It doesn't, it doesn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's definitely been these moments, especially more recently, starting to realize that, like I can't be everything to everyone and they, each person can't be everything to me, and starting to like both, let go of anything that I'm putting on these other people and also, for myself, be like, you know, if this isn't serving me, if this I'm not taking care of myself in this moment, then that all I can do right now is then make sure that I'm filling my own cup, because there is nothing else I can do right now, and to have people in your life that understand that.
Speaker 1:It first comes with being able to voice that and like, share that. And for a lot of us we don't do it because we're so afraid of what could happen when, really, if we started to open up those conversations to make it a safe space where not only can I share that I am drained, I'm exhausted, I cannot, that I don't have the energy for this right now, and you know I, but I love you and I care about you, but they, we also give other people the space to do the same it really does. It builds like such strong friendships and relationships that can sustain some difficult stuff and take the weight off. God, yeah, it's freeing. It's like Take it off. It's like sigh of relief to know that like it doesn't like if I need, if I need a second, I know that the people in my life respect that I don't want to get that to me.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you can't talk every day.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you don't have the space to just sit on a phone and to have friends who understand that. That's what I think is important. Also, we seek that, we seek and we become that Like I don't my friends right now. One of my best friends I haven't talked to her in like three days cause she's she's got a lot of stuff going on. I don't need this girl hit me up when you done Like there's no pressure, there's none, just be like. That is very important.
Speaker 1:I know there's all you know I won't get a. I'll text somebody. I don't hear back from him in a couple of days and I've there. I'm so sorry. Blah, blah, blah and I'm like you know you don't have to apologize for that is just a text message and this was not that important. And then I started to. I've started to find myself like I'll go to apologize or like please don't hate me for this and then I'm like no, don't apologize, no, I don't apologize.
Speaker 2:That's a big thing too, because I used to apologize a lot, started in childhood. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And I said now I have like I don't do it. If I haven't intentionally hurt you, right, I'm not gonna apologize. Right, if I haven't like inconvenienced you or anything like me, just missing your tech, I'm not gonna do that anymore. And that I think that's part of self love, of like no, I'm not gonna. Why would I do that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, shifting that perspective of I can be sorry that something occurred but I'm moving that blame from myself yeah, just it's a general I'm not sorry, but yeah too. Yeah, in this situation we're always understanding the fact that you know I wish that wouldn't have happened. But that doesn't mean that I'm taking any responsibility for it, because a lot of times it is out of my control and it wasn't something I intentionally wanted to skip.
Speaker 2:But you know, whatever it is, Like, yeah, but you know that starts in families, though, Absolutely Like. I've seen some of my friends grew up in families that were like, very relaxed, like oh, whatever, whatever, you know, like there's no pressure and they are just the most free spirited. Like oh, yeah, whatever, yeah, this is fine, this is fine. I'll show up this. And I noticed the kids that grew up in rigid households or like, or in households they had to kind of have some type of control or they are so hard on themselves Always. It makes. That brings it back to why it's important in the house to create that foundation for your child.
Speaker 2:Yes, like I saw something that I forgot. Who said this? I wish I can like give. I think it was Tony, I think it was Tony Morris, but I'm not sure I'm not. I don't wanna misquote the wrong person, but she was like do you look at when your kids come in the room? Do your eyes light up? And a lot of parents are like no, I'm checking their shoelaces, I'm checking to make sure their shirt's tucked in. I'm checking to make sure they brush their hair, I'm checking to make sure they brush their teeth. And kids growing up in critical environments like that See that. That is that will.
Speaker 2:That's the beginning of depression, anxiety, overstimulation, like that is where it truly begins, and that is kind of where a lot of mental health issues start too, of like, oh you know, I'm anxious, like, does everything go good? You know, like and that's a big part of it too, I think, and I just hope, I think we have a. You know, there's hope for the future. Yeah, when it comes to us being more like present parents and then the next generation, each generation, gonna get better.
Speaker 1:And you know it's not to say that, as a parent, you're already under a great deal of stress, that some things you are not gonna do perfect, but to just recognize that, oh, this is like intentionally. This is a situation where you know nine times out of 10, I'm acting in this way. I could you know that there it should be, that the norm is that my eyes light up when I see my child. I think they might only have a school. However, sometimes I'm over simulated and I may be like get your shoes on.
Speaker 2:Like, we are not even.
Speaker 1:And that's okay too. But it's really about having that awareness to be able to know that all of these things, that these things will have an impact, and that you know as much of the time as you can to really focus on. Are we, you know? Are we being open and honest about what we're feeling and how that's not their fault, you know? Are we making sure that they can see that they're in a safe space? As often, you know, as more often than not, and those things will make a huge impact? Yeah, it's proven, it's evidence-based.
Speaker 1:Yes, and we Check the numbers, check the numbers and, yeah, this Studies, all of that, yeah, and this generation. I mean those core beliefs that you develop as a child, that continue to come up for you throughout your life. It can. It starts with those, some of those small things. Sometimes it starts with really traumatic experience, but that's even something to recognize too, that you don't have to have necessarily grown up in an unsafe environment for those core beliefs and those anxiety symptoms and the depression to start building over small things.
Speaker 1:You know, for me I grew up with an identical twin sister, what and so. So that compare right, that comparison of like always, and it wasn't even it wasn't intentional, but there were adults that would compare, sit there and pick us apart and compare us. And you know, I don't know if it happened as much in my household, but I just know that like a big chunk of my life was being compared to another individual and I now know like how much that impacted me. That's not something anyone would consider traumatic. However, that did form these beliefs in myself, that you know that maybe I'm not, that I'm never good enough, that you know there's that I should be this or that, and that's that starts a childhood.
Speaker 2:It does. And, as you say it, though, I remember going to school with twins and we would oh, that twin does this and this one like hmm.
Speaker 1:People. Still, I mean they'll, we'll be standing next to each other and they'll literally start picking, like things that.
Speaker 2:I never thought about that Wow.
Speaker 1:And most people don't. So that is one thing when someone's like I'm having identical twins and like let me tell you, let me tell you some things to watch out for. But it's just like that. It's just like you don't know what you don't know. I never thought about that. Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:That's you look at it.
Speaker 1:That's been the hey that's coming up in there, paul for sure.
Speaker 2:I used to go into middle school like, hey y'all, yeah, yeah, I never thought about that, and now I. I see now a lot of twins. When they get older, they make sure that their identities are completely different, like they look like different hair colors, different styles. Wow, I never wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, that might be an episode for another day.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go process this and Google all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1:I will please share what you found, Because, yeah, I mean oh, but okay, well, let's not, we won't take too much away from that. I'm like we could dig into that all day, but as we, as we really come wrap up here, I think so much of the things that you shared really focus in on how you took this, this generational trauma, and how you are now doing the work so that you can change that for the, for your children and for the future. Is there any? If there was really one thing that people were to take away from this episode, if you could sum up something, or if there's anything else that you really want to make sure people know, what would that be? I guess, the biggest thing for me is.
Speaker 2:I know everybody's focused on getting there for a 1K together, getting their, their investments together, getting their career together and getting creating a great financial you know stable environment for their children. I think is is way more important to do the work internally on yourself. Yes, I'm not saying healing. Is is like going to be linear and it's over. I'm healed and cool. I checked it off, I checked my box. I think be more intentional and exploring yourself on why you do things, because you know yourself. You look in the mirror every day. You know yourself. Be honest with yourself, be vulnerable, be transparent as possible, because your kids are going to be the ones who going to get that product from you. Like you can go to work and be the best employee you can be, you can go and be the best friend, the best, all of this, but when you come home, your kids going to get the raw version of you.
Speaker 2:And I think, do the work to be become the best raw version of yourself. Yeah. That you know there's no, no one looking Like it's because your kids are going to remember all that stuff and do the work. It's hard, but if you really want to give them, you know, an advantage in this world, be mentally as mentally stable as possible, be emotionally intelligent as possible, be transparent, be vulnerable, be expressive.
Speaker 1:Be aware Be aware Be emotional.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know safely but of course you know. But I think that's the biggest thing for me and I think I'm happy I haven't had kids yet, because now I'm like okay yeah, I can have some children. Yes, when they're, you know, I can help them and I can shift and I can pivot and I can, I can really create some beautiful human beings when it comes to just like internally beautiful, and I think that comes from grace and releasing shame and guilt, because that's heavy.
Speaker 2:It is, and if you don't feel like your kids going to feel it, so feel you need to feel yours, because I don't. You don't want your kids feeling that nothing had nothing to do with them. So I guess I mean that was a long, long time ago.
Speaker 1:No, that was perfect.
Speaker 2:That's what I think about when I think about how am I going to help be a ladder and lift my children up, and that's just by simply healing, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1:It's beautiful because it's all you know. You grow up hearing you know, oh, you have kids. To like check off the some box because you're supposed to have kids, but to say I want to have children because I want to impart this beauty and this, this safety in them so that they can go and be. You know, these incredible human beings, like that's a beauty, that's beautiful. We should all be so lucky to have that, to be able to say like this is what I can give to my children, and to even comparing it to this you know this financial, yes, you'll. You see a financial planner. Think about the amount of work you put into setting yourself up financially, setting your family up financially, and the pressure you put on yourself to do that, but not taking care of yourself, not noticing your habits, noticing your patterns, absolutely, because your kids are going to notice them and hope.
Speaker 2:And, like they said, you know the story about the alcoholic father. Like the twins, you know, they I don't know if they were twins, but they were brothers One brother became an alcoholic and one brother didn't. And then you asked them both why did you turn out the way you did? And they said oh, because my father was an alcoholic. So that is a big part. I think that people need to realize, like, as a parent, you can do that You're going to imprint, so imprint some good stuff.
Speaker 1:And there's a lot of things you won't have control of. But that but that you do, you do you really do. Yeah, absolutely yeah. Well, this was absolutely fantastic, it was great. Thank you so much for coming on here and for sharing and being open and raw and giving us some of that. It is what it is. Just like you said, we have to do that in order to move forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Thank you for having me. I was great.
Speaker 1:You know, I really enjoyed it, yeah, thank you so much and thank you all so much for listening.
